900S Turbo AFR – Dyno
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Hello,
recently I measured stock 93’s SAAB 900S 16V Turbo imported from Sweden to Slovenia. Imported car has 3 melted pistons but after the engine rebuilding the owner of the car want to know what was the root cause for holes.
Eventually car was bring to me to do some measurements (I didn’t rebuild engine).So in attached file you can see dyno graf with boost, intake temp and AFR curve.
I’m in doubt if AFR 14.5 at 0.5Bar from 2000rpm to 3000rpm is stock setup for this car.If somebody know or can confirm how stock AFR should look like and or measured AFR is normal for this car I will appreciated.
My opinion is AFR should be a bit richer under this load but I’m in doubt it will cause melting 3 pistons anyhow under certain conditions…
Attachments:
As an 900 S should have 145 HP something is clearly modified.
open the ECU and look at the Eprom, these used to be tinkered with and some tuning companies put a sticker on it or wrote on it.
what fuel are you running? ive always hated AFR for that, i like Lambda measurement.
It seems to run lean below 3000 rpm on full trottle. (if it is full trottle).
Normally there should be more boost att lower rews if the enginge have stock turbo.Is the trottle position sensor ok on this car ?
Hello,
tanks for fast respond.
Yes it is WOT measurement in 3rd gear.
Fuel is 95 octane.How can I check if it is LPT (low pressure turbo) model up to 145HP or up to 185HP model, because my first assumption is so much HP is measured due to 185HP model.
Maybe you know if somebody from SAAB community did AFR measuring in the past to compare AFR results.
Maybe back in those days that kind of AFR was normal for factory tuning and car I measured is not remapped…Car went from my garage so I will need some time to get ECU and check Eprom :/
http://900aero.com/ has some stock dyno sheets, but no AFR data
tech -> engine something
a Low preassre should Not have a APC boost solenoid on the right side of the cooling fans, up high
Thank you M.Broberg.
May I to ask dummy question if 900S have also other ECU for running the injector, calculating TDC…. or APC does it all?
Sorry but SAAB 900S is really something I got first time in my life.
I speculating that car have APC for sensing the knock and controlling the boost but have also main ECU somewhere.
Can you give me location where ECU is installed (I suppose is on the wall next to the glove box under the carpets)?
I need to sent instructions how to remove ECU to owner of the car (car is not in my location any more) so it is a bit more difficult for all of us 🙂Thank you
Thank you M.Broberg.
May I to ask dummy question if 900S have also other ECU for running the injector, calculating TDC…. or APC does it all? Sorry but SAAB 900S is really something I got first time in my life. I speculating that car have APC for sensing the knock and controlling the boost but have also main ECU somewhere. Can you give me location where ECU is installed (I suppose is on the wall next to the glove box under the carpets)? I need to sent instructions how to remove ECU to owner of the car (car is not in my location any more) so it is a bit more difficult for all of us ?
Thank youIs the HP on the hub or crank in the dyno chart? THe ECU is located were yuo guess on the right side wall under the glove compartment.
To remove the ECU its easy. Remove the bracket that holds the carpets in place, remove the wall carpets and remove the screws that holds the ECU in place. Also disconnect the harness/connector. How ever it might be tight of space if you wont remove the knee panel and air distribution pipe but the ECU can be removed without remove these parts.“I speculating that car have APC for sensing the knock and controlling the boost” correct the APC is adjusting the boost preassure and also detect knocking and adjust the boost because of that. The apc system is almost stand alone from the rest of the engine ECU etc so its easy to to install apc on a non apc turob as a 900S lpt. I have done this on my car for example.
//Björn
Mr_SunBear @ GaragetHello,
Thank you Bjorn:
modified dyno graph ias attachemnt to be more clear… Measured is 150 Wheel HP and estimated value at crank is 175HP…
Attached is picture of ECU end everything seems normal.
APC is located above driver side wheel left from the engine.Thank you Broberg:
I compared some dyno curves from 900aero but car I measured having really bumpy curve compared from 900aero dyno graphs.If you have more advices please do not hesitate to give me a job. Allways happy to widening my knowledge!
Wolud be fun to measure another 900S to compare AFR curves.Attached is picture of ECU end everything seems normal. APC is located above driver side wheel left from the engine.
You’ll need to remove the black plastic cap that says “Lucas” to see if the Eprom is replaced from stock.
If you have more advices please do not hesitate to give me a job. Allways happy to widening my knowledge!
In the measurement you can clearly see that the fuel pressure regulator works fine, lowering AFR with raised boost. you can also see that maximum torque is delivered during the overboost peak @ 172,7kPa/1,7BAR and then corrcted to 149,9kPa/1,5BAR which is way to high even for a FPT-model.
Also, the fact that this boost actually stays all the way up to 5000rpm tells us that if the APC even works at all, it’s modified for sure, stock it should be much lower at high rpm’s.This car is way off from stock, but can be a really fun car if you can just tune it to stable behaviour. 😀
Regards
Andreas9³ Aero SS -03, 9³ Aero Coupé -02, 900T16 Cab -89 & 900T8 -85 på garaget.org || Tech 2
Hello,
1.75 Bar is absolute pressure (Atmospheric + boost).
So it is 0.75 Bar of boost.
Is 0.75 Bar of boost over the stock values?Thank you
0,75bar max is stock value for B202 with cat.
The curve looks normal, except the “high” revs for the torque peak and the lean afr on low rews.1.75 Bar is absolute pressure (Atmospheric + boost). So it is 0.75 Bar of boost.
Ok, didn’t notice, my bad.
At the same time, I should have noticed, 175hp @ 1,5 BAR of boost would have been a bit strange.. 😀0,75bar max is stock value for B202 with cat. The curve looks normal, except the ”high” revs for the torque peak and the lean afr on low rews.
I agree, and it seems to be due to the very long boost build-up time…?
Regards
9³ Aero SS -03, 9³ Aero Coupé -02, 900T16 Cab -89 & 900T8 -85 på garaget.org || Tech 2
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