Chinese car news outlet (aoto.sohu.com) keeps repeating (different post from different authors) that the NEVS 9-3 will have a E-REV version with a range of 1200 km. This would not be available from the beginning […]
🙂 Thanx for the thanx!
A couple of months ago – on this site – there was a description – in Chinese, but with diagrams – of current owners of NEVS, which indicated that NEVS is now, to 52%, owned by two state agencies.
In other words – NEVS is now owned by China.
That conforms with the INFO that first three years of production is a sold out- probably to Chinese state officials – who can’t pick and choose.
This is very good news for Kai Johan – and halfway good news for Trollhättan, since only bodies will be produced in THN during coming three years.
Engineering center in THN is utilised to about 50% – new engineering center to be completed in China within three years. Trollhättan?
Happy for NEVS news to be published here, and this is article helpfully brings some scattered news together.
Just can’t help feeling they should reverse their initials! SVEN sounds much nicer than NEVS!
On your rear mirror you will read SVEN 😉 if a NEVS car is behind you.
Actually it would read reverse, S, N and E, so would not really be SVEN, but anyway it is not expected that a SAAB will be behind anyone 😉
The 140 km/h top speed is an interesting decision. Lower top speed means better efficiency on lower speeds when you don’t have a gearbox, and adding higher top speed cost dearly, either in price/complexity or range.
But I wonder what customers will think, when the I3 has a 150 km/h top speed. Customer reaction will be interesting, are the willing to accept a lower top speed (even if that is above the speed limit almost everywhere) this for other advantages?
Personally I would prefer to have a car that makes 0-140 for 5 seconds than a car that goes beyond 140, it is very rare occasion to go beyond 140 km/h anyway.
Call me boring, but 140km/h and 0-100 km/h in 10s is plenty for me. However 1000km on a single charge *would* get me interested, as I could do /most/ of my journeys on that.
It’s very hard to speculate about how this car would compare to a Leaf or Tesla if it’s ever built. Those cars are on the road now, for sale and presumably, Tesla and Nissan will consistently improve upon them as they stay in production. NEVS doesn’t have anything produced or for sale yet. By the time they do, we don’t know what Tesla and Nissan will have done with their cars—-in other words, they are a moving target if we are trying to compare NEVS to them. Development will have a lot to do with China, since they are basically state owned at this point.
At the end you have to compare with something that you know about.
Nobody, but they have to deliver 150.000 cars in the next 3 years, and the factory in Tianjin will take another three years till it is is fully functional. So either they don’t deliver those cars or they build them in THN.
I’ve been hearing for the last 16 years that fuel cell cars are the future. Still not sure about that. Let’s see what happens in 5 years from now.
You will always need to use more energy to compress the hydrogren into a tank than you will to drive a battery car…
If NEVS will build all the models they claim – then troll will be bussy…
If NEVS is owned by China AND customers are state officials OR short term leasers, competitive performance is not essential.
China will get help to reduce pollution and Kai Johan will earn money.
The risk, however, is that the Brand is down the drain, so when next generation comes out in three years, nor rich Chinese or westerners will buy the cars – even if they are competitive. State officials will still be customers.
Where will second generation NEVS be built? – In new complete factory in China or THN? Will THN be utilised if volumes are mediocre?
Tjalle, you have good arguments, and NEVS has still to proof a lot, but what they are telling is that second gen cars build in Tianjin will be for the Chinese market and cars build in THN will be for the EU and US market.
What will happen with THN if they don’t manage to sell 200.000 cars in China per year (production capacity of Tianjin) with 4 different models?
Nobody can tell how the future will be, but currently it looks like THN having a bit more to do than in the last few years.
RedJ: it’s interesting to me that though, as you say, NEVS have to prove themselves, they seem to have attracted a reasonable number of good people (not exclusively ex-Saab) to come and work for them. We criticize NEVS, but these people must know more of the story than we do if they are happy to work for them.
That’s the main reason why I believe that NEVS is up to something
Is the economy there thriving to the point where people would not accept a job offer? A few years ago, I read what a blow it was that Saab was closing—-because jobs were not easy to come by in that area. I would assume if NEVS has some investment gravy and wants to attract more by hiring, people who need jobs will accept the offer gladly without vetting NEVS. If they’re collecting a paycheck and the employment climate isn’t healthy, why NOT work for NEVS, regardless of how strong or weak they might be?
Angelo, I can’t say for sure, but you have in the region VOLVO and CEVT, and then you also have all those companies that were created in 2011 from the engineers at SAABAutomobile you also have companies like Semcon and Combitech (engineering consultancies) that went fishing in Trollhättan in 2011, and I also heard from Engineers decided to go to Norway to the oil fields to get a job. So all in all I assume that most of the old SAAB Automobile engineers managed to get a new Job.
So NEVS has a tough job to do to get this we engineers back on board, and btw one of the articles Tjalle was talking about was about an engineer that worked in Trollhättan went to Norway to find a job and although he got one there, he decided that it was worth trying to get back home and get a job at NEVS.
On the other side the blue collar workers are the ones that had more
Problems to get a new job after the closing of the factory.
But at the end of the day I’m only an outsider that only knows what happens there from the press, and if the press lies I can’t tell.
Red J, I fully agree that halfway utilised manufacturing and engineering is better than nothing, and we can see three years of that.
Kai Johan is a shrewd businessman and managed to sell half his company to the Chinese, but that is not the same as that he and his non-automotive directors will support development of competitive vehicles, even if there also are a couple of former SAAB engineers working.
”Everybody” is heading for China with best possible technology. I am afraid NEVS will have to use ”Kai Johan bus batteries”, also for 2:d generation.
A shutdown in three to four years would be another blow to THN.
Sorry for being critical, but that is my feeling from what NEVS has done or not done during the past years. For the sake of THN, I hope I am wrong.
It’s not being ”critical” to be honest. I am in agreement with your post.
NEVS has, for some reason, difficulties to recruite engineers.
It is on the news today – both locally and main radio ”Dagens Eko”, that NEVS is recruiting engineers from the oilfields in Norway.
It sets the stage for interesting vehicles: electrical vehicles designed by oilfield engineers :o)
Apart from that, because of Norway struck oil and Sweden did not, there are a lot of stories about Norwegians not being overly bright.
Tjalle, come on, let’s not devolve into shooting barbs at other Scandinavians. People who live in Sweden may feel there is a big difference between it and Norway, but the rest of the world sees it all as pretty much the same thing. We have to think globally, because that is the reality. No offense, but as a market, all of Scandinavia (Norway, Finland, Sweden, Denmark) is a rounding error compared to the emerging markets in China and elsewhere. Globalization is a fact of life and here to stay, regardless of the Brexit nonsense. I hope NEVS succeeds in bringing a decent vehicle to market, but since it is not going to be a Saab, and their clear target is serving the Chinese market, I think that something that will have a material presence in the European market that we will care about, is a stretch, and it making it to the US is more of a stretch. And, frankly, who cares about something built on the old 9-3 platform anyway. Maybe something using the Phoenix platform might be interesting, but keeping track of what they have or might have and will use in the near or distant future is confusing and annoying.
Paul, Norwegian stories were a sideline – I admitted they are because of Norway struck oil.
My message about NEVS having difficulties in recruiting engineers were a response to input from Romac and Red J, who claimed that the fact that NEVS were able to recruit engineers – so far about 300 – was proof of confidence in NEVS. I don’t think so.
There are about 500 qualified engineers in THN, working for consultants and Flygmotor and there are about 3000 in Göteborg (50 miles away) working for Volvo – cars and trucks- and also consultants and suppliers.
These 3500 engineers have – so far -not answered to invites from NEVS. Hence NEVS are recruiting from the Norwegian oilfields, who are, temporarily, in semi-deep —-.
Phoenix is out – too old – but for some general thinking.
I wonder if the folks in France who had family members mowed down would agree with you that Brexit is ”nonsense” or if they wish they had moved in that direction years ago. Back on topic, I am familiar with the Chinese market and the vast majority of buyers there aren’t interested in another Chinese start-up. They like their Buicks, European marques——maybe some of the home-grown makes too, but the last thing they’re probably interested in is a poor imitation of Tesla when they could just buy a Tesla instead. Let’s be real here: If the idea is a clean break from Saab and development of electrics, NEVS is worlds behind Tesla and others. Maybe they should have considered hybrid and ICE development, begging for the Saab name and some prestige to sell in China instead of vaporware.
Just to be fair, the deranged fool who mowed down those poor folks in Nice had been in France for 10 years and was from Tunisia, a former French colony. So, this didn’t really have anything to do with the recent issues of immigration vis-a-vis EU policies.
The point I was trying to make was that globalization is pretty much a fact of life, and the Brexit action was largely driven by an anti-globalization sentiment. I understand the sentiment to some extent, but one has to look at the auto industry in the global view, as that is the new reality, and that includes for NEVS and the Chinese. That makes it hard to let go of the idea that a small automaker could continue to serve a tiny market share from a small country with oddball products, but that is the reality. And we are seeing it play out all over the place. I am not saying I totally like it–it is just inevitable (well, minus tariffs and quotas and the like)
I posted a comment a few weeks ago about a news segment I had seen that discussed the Chinese car market. China is earnestly trying to further develop and expand its OWN manufacturing capabilities, with an emphasis on alternative energy platforms. Already, the Chinese market exceeds both the US and EU car markets, and is growing rapidly. What is my point? That we need to see NEVS from a Chinese-centric perspective and understand that anything that might ever make it to Europe or North America would only be a by-product of what NEVS is doing for the Chinese market, likely in that market. They are not interested in reviving Saab or something like Saab to serve a tiny market slice. I think that is pretty clear. They acquired technology and engineering talent and production capacity as a stop-gap measure till they could get their own show on the road.
Unless someone like Volvo decides to use the Saab brand, which they probably will not, then Saab is well and truly dead, and those of us with old Saabs will struggle to keep them on the road. I recently had the fairly common ignition-cylinder failure issue on my old classic 900 and even the former Saab dealer that had been around since the 1970s could not get the part for a month! In fact, the lady who handles the parts is the wife of the owner and told me she warns those looking to buy an old 900 to get two, one to drive and the other for parts.
Anyone who has purchased a Saab for any real $$ over the past 5 years in the US has seen catastrophic depreciation, and I mean catastrophic. Only convertibles hold any value and even then not much. The Saab faithful are moving from a group of enthusiasts who use their Saabs as daily drivers like normal people to a group of enthusiasts who either go to great lengths that others would consider utterly unreasonable in order to keep driving their Saabs (me), or just use their Saabs as ”nice day” or collector cars. That is fine, but will be an ever-shrinking group. I hate to be negative, but I think this is the new reality.
It’s indeed the new reality. I have my 2004 9-5 and I drove the car all over the place today. Such a beautiful, well engineered car. So comfortable—-the best balance of space, driving satisfaction and fuel efficiency I’ve ever had in a car, and I’ve had a lot of cars. It’s low mileage and no issues to report. But reality is that the first major expense will likely spell the end of me owning the car. It just wouldn’t make sense to put a pile of money into a major repair, with the possibility of more to come, fewer parts available, no resale value, etc. I’m hoping I can keep it on the road, maybe with some minor repairs from time to time. I have other cars, so it’s not like I count on it for a daily driver. I do worry about taking it on long trips though—-since there’s no Saab dealer network left. If I venture too far away into rural areas, God only knows if I’d find someone to work on the car if I had a problem crop up. These are the realities of owning a Saab today.
It wasn’t so long ago that many SAAB fans thought it made great sense for an investor to spend huge sums to keep the SAAB production lines going despite a long history of financial losses for the brand, so we shouldn’t balk at spending some of our own money to keep these cars going just because it may not make be practical or make the most financial sense.
In fairness though, I think we were saying that if the brand is handled the right way and marketed properly, it could be profitable—I never suggested that Vic Muller or anyone should absorb years of losses just to satisfy my desire to own a Saab. The point was that previous owners hadn’t run things in a way that made sense. At least speaking for myself, I suggested ways that I felt the brand should be reborn and reach a whole new market, younger, for more growth, more volume. So it’s not really fair to say we should suffer financial losses ourselves to drive an old car with no dealer support just because we had grand ideas for how someone could make money selling the brand.
Of course, that’s why I replaced our beloved 2001 9-5 by a high milleage 2007 E320 Bluetec. Even if I miss a few SAAB caracteristics, I have to admit the Merc is a far superior product. My biggest complain, and it was a shock to me, is that I don’t have foldable rear seats. Oh, they exist, as an option! Now, that you would never encounter in a SAAB!
Bruce and Angelo have me pegged pretty well. I can`t seem to find anyone who will take my 97- automatic Red Aero 9000 with 211,000 miles, for small money. I paid $12,900 USD for an 07- 95 immaculate wagon with 19K miles early this year. Beat out 20 callers, probably all Saab nuts willing to over pay as well. I can still get parts in Florida, and am not to proud to go pick wrecks for decent parts. Totally agree that I am on my last Saab, but I tend to keep my cars for years. The Aero 19 years, my white 93-9000 CSE was 20 years.
They say no matter which way you buy or lease a car, it cost about $500 USD per month with depreciation,tires and gas.
All any of us can do is drive and enjoy our Saabs. I have two local neighbors, who bought new cars as both their vehicles needed $3000 dollars of repairs. This seems to be the magic number to get people to move up.
I suggest that Saab owners purchase the items that usually go bad, and stock pile them. You could always barter with another owner if you don`t need the part in the long run. Keep Saabing, it`s too early to give up.
I always carry a DI-cassett in my MY-97 9000 T Jubilee, 310.000km and use my MY-15 BMW for long trips.
Tjalle Yes the DI cassette is like that old American Express ad
”Never leave home without it” I have gone through 3 x plastic coolant tanks on my 9000 recently. They all split under pressure where the top half is press fitted to the lower half.
Anyone out there who can suggest why the wipers on the 9000 don`t work?
All the fuses seem fine. Tough to drive in a Florida thunder storm.
Splines on the wiper arms are tight.
”SAABSUNITED” is there a way we can use this forum to trade parts with each other?
We have a collective audience where some appear to have needs for parts.
What say we set up a central exchange.
Len, I suggest you hook up 12V to the wipers. Remove the upper firewall – 4 screws, and you get access to cable.
If nogo – change drive unit. Easy to get in Sweden from second hand dealer – probably more difficult in the US.
Monique, the final countdown is over. No need to repeat it again and again. SAAB branded cars are part of the past. You can accept it and look into the future ignoring or not what is currently happening in Trollhättan.
Afaik, there are some rights problems with the Phoenix as it was created by Jason Castriota and Saab never paid for that. But I could be wrong.
And I have no clue where the car currently is located.
Based on the latest news from NEVS (at nevs.com/en/news), with the header-image above the item ”Ambassadors in Trollhättan for a sneak-peak of NEVS future”, it looks like the Phoenix concept car is located in the plant (based on the interior in the image). But it could as well be from inside another car that we haven’t seen before. I don’t know.
I must have overseen that picture, as it is indeed the Phoenix prototype. Don’t know what they want to do with it, but maybe the guy sitting in the car, if he reads SU, may know it.
New web site owners with the same old crap. Millions of words and opinions but not one freaking new car. How much longer will this false game continue? For my Swedish friends: Ny webbplatsägare med samma gamla skit. Miljontals ord och åsikter men inte en freaking ny bil. Hur mycket längre kommer detta con spel?falska spel?
Your opinion is appreciated, though I don’t share it. There are no actual new cars from NEVS yet, but I like these ”rumour posts” from Red J. These kind of things are fun to speculate on. Though I’m sure we’ll get some more actual info from NEVS here in the future.
And please don’t use Google translate for Swedish. Everyone in Sweden knows English and your translation was really only confusing. 🙂
Sorry about the Google Translate. I now remember visiting Sweden and the English fluency. I very much like your comments and am with you. Thank you.
I would be interested in a hybrid version at the right price!
Well they are always talking about making them affordable, not like the cars from that Californian company!! 😉
”But they decided to not to show anything, but instead of that they invited press and the community and so some information about the new car has been filtrated to the net.” Proof positive that they have nothing to show.
I subscribe to that, and I think this was the first think that I said when they presented their new brand. At that day, a prototype or something whit the NEVS Logo should have been shown to the press.
But I don’t think that they still will not have nothing to show in the next months.
That remains to be seen. They’ve been at this over four years now. They should be beyond baby steps, yet I don’t even see baby steps. Their futility at simple public relations and outreach is stunning to me. It begs the question of the competence of their entire organization if they can’t get simple things right.
My comment was not intended to be negative and I’m sorry if you feel offended by it. My intention was only to let the original poster know that he doesn’t have to translate his comments to Swedish using Google.
English has been a mandatory subject in Swedish schools since the early 50’s. Swedes are considered (and tested) as one of the best in the world when it comes to English knowledge (as a foreign language).
But sure, not everyone in Sweden knows English. And not everyone in Sweden knows Swedish either. In the end, SaabsUnited is an English spoken/written website, so let’s stick to English here. 🙂
Hey, I learned a new word, ”decennia”! I gave you a thumbs-up for that, canceled someone’s thumbs-down. 🙂
Seems as though Sergio/FIAT are phasing Dodge/Chrysler out. They are completely focused on Jeep and SUVs along with FIAT—–Dodge and Chrysler passenger cars are on the way out. He’s looking for a merger or acquisition—-and I think shedding Dodge and possibly Chrysler is important to making the company leaner and more profitable. The question becomes, will he just kill these divisions off, or will he try to package them or sell one or both? My point is that a real car maker in China—-a big, successful Chinese manufacturer actually making and selling cars, with intentions to expand globally (not NEVS people, not NEVS) might be interested in getting an American brand and instand dealership network and might be willing to pay decent money to FIAT to grab Dodge for example. Thoughts?
Dropping both Dodge and Chrysler would leave FCA without any viable non-truck product in the US unless Fiat and Alfa suddenly vastly broaden their appeal (very unlikely). You may be correct about Dodge though. The new FCA minivan is only being released as a Chrysler even though the previous model had somewhat higher sales in Dodge form vs. the Chrysler version. Also, FCA has some Dodge products they would probably want to keep such as the Challenger which doesn’t really lend itself to being marketed as Fiat whereas a Chrysler badge could work. The reality is though that a leading consumer magazine rates too many FCA products as either deficient in execution, reliability or both. If that were not the case it would be more likely that sales volume would be sufficient to support the existing brands. Even Jeep vehicles aren’t very good, but that brand has great appeal and they sell regardless – imagine what Jeep sales would be if their products were better.
Does the spirit of Monique walk among us?
So it seems. A newly registered account, using the same kind of language and ”intense” commenting technique as Monique, with several references to her by name. Oh, and apparently they both have the exact same IP address.
Oh, another spammer from Belgium, what a coincidence 🙂
Hans has been around for quite a while—-I think longer than Monique.
Bet he drives a LandRover 😉
I don’t know if you’re correct on that, Angelo. If you click his profile it says registered 5 days, 9 hours. Happens to be registered within a day or two of when Monique was banned, also saying things like, ”Monique says hello”. I’m about 90% certain it’s just a fake account Monique is using to SPAM again.
But seriously, as much as I’d like to not be rude, is there a way to make a personal filter so I can block myself from seeing these comments? I didn’t want to see Monique’s spam, and now it’s been replaced with Hans.
Good detective work. But didn’t we have someone named Hans who posted here somewhat regularly? I assumed it was that Hans.
Completely possible, but I don’t believe it was this particular ”Hans”. My guess is the name Hans is like the name Bob or Bill, pretty common. ”I am from Belgium” as well as ”I just pop in this site.” combined with the account being made a day after Monique was banned would seem to indicate our friend Hans here may actually be Monique. Unfortunately for ”Hans” he hasn’t learned much from Monique’s chronic spamming of Saabs United.
Like I said previously, and I know it’s not very polite of me; I love hearing what people have to say here, but the thought of seeing 5 replies in unintelligible paragraphs in response to on subject comments really makes me shy from the comments section.
Apart from the things you’ve listed, Monique and Hans use the exact same IP address. So Hans has now been banned here as well.
I’m not quite sure why the moderators banned Monique, Sure, she could be off-topic (often). Sure, her posts were pretty convoluted and sometimes almost intelligible English (maybe as a result of Google translate). Sure, she could post incessantly. Sure, she sometimes strongly disagreed with others. But I think she did bring a knowledge and perspective and something different to the site that could be engaging and interesting. I never found that she was nasty or crossed the line. Personally, I think the moderators should rethink their ban and bring her back. It’s good to have a different voice at times. Take Angelo….he can be brutal with NEVS…in my opinion, be brings his conservative political views into the conversation too much (hopefully, he doesn’t go so far as voting for Trump. haha)….but he’s a really important antidote to some of the fan boys for NEVS on the site (remember Tim?).
Here’s why Monique was banned: http://www.saabsunited.com/2016/08/nevs-are-creating-new-jobs-with-phoenix-1-1.html#comment-235806
Please don’t compare Angelo to her, he doesn’t deserve it 🙂
Poor Monique. Poor Hans. Poor Angelo.
Yes, it’s interesting. And we wrote about it 3 weeks ago: http://www.saabsunited.com/2016/08/nevs-are-creating-new-jobs-with-phoenix-1-1.html
1200 km e-range for extended-range version is nothing special (engine starts to work to generate electricity which just depends on the size of the oil tank ) and it is indeed from NEVS newsclips that sent to reporters at NEVS brand release.
Real Estate is a good investment.