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  • Jonathan skrev ett nytt inlägg, Saab enthusiast meeting at NEVS (with Q&A), på webbplatsen SAABSUNITED 3 år, 1 månad sedan

    A couple of days after the news that NEVS will use its own brand instead of Saab, a number of Saab car enthusiasts were invited to a meeting with NEVS at the Stallbacka plant in Trollhättan. Among others, the […]

    • Sorry, I don’t buy this:
      -first three years of production is sold out to China, because China owns NEVS – no cars outside of China=no production in THN for 1:st generation.
      -there is – absolutely – no relation to Saab AB.
      -Phoenix is dead – too old. Thinking/details from Phoenix can be utilised in a 2:d version – no more.
      -obviously first of 2:d generation NEVS is due for 2020= 4 years away.
      -”Our famous history and spirit” – bull!

      My feelings are negative to NEVS, because they try to communicate something they are not – a SAAB- successor.
      Just to talk about : cars of the future is not a thing – but a service!!

      I am afraid that 1:st generation halway-good vehicles, will destroy Brand, so even if 2:d generation is good, they wan’t sell outside of China= no manufacturing in THN.

      • Tjalle, as you probably saw some of the questions were from you. You are entitled to your opinion, but NEVS are very open and supportive towards the Saab community. They have been clear about China being their primary target. That’s not ”how it used to be”, but maybe it’s ”how NEVS will succeed”. At least that’s what me, and many others, are keeping their fingers crossed for. 🙂

      • Thank you. And you didn’t even mention that stupidity about mobility services, basically saying ”don’t plan on owning a car.” Sorry, I don’t like these people.

    • Are you kidding me? ”very open and supportive towards the Saab community?” How does a recent meeting or two make up for 3 years of silence and ignoring us?

      • There haven’t been 3 years of silence from NEVS in Sweden. They have been actively meeting Saab enthusiasts here. Their CEO spoke of NEVS plans at the Saabklubben yearly meeting three years ago. And they’ve been at other Saab car meetups (such as the Maptun meet last year). So yes, in my opinion NEVS have been open and supportive towards the Saab community. But again, let’s not forget that they’ve been through a company reconstruction and that they haven’t had much to communicate (in terms of what actually interests us, ie. the cars).

    • Again, only talking. Worthless words. They’ve read in marketing books how to deal with the customers of a well-known brand of the past. But that cannot conceal their inability to produce something real and attractive. At best they can make another Chinese fake. At best it’s gonna be a Lifan 320 copied from Tesla with the same difference in technology. Have you seen this tasteless interpretation of the 9-3 they recently shown? That really exhibits their level.

      • I guess I’m past being angry about their incompetence. It’s a shame, but they’ve been reduced to most people not even caring, which is actually a few steps below being angry. Being angry means you care. They’ve sunk to new lows.

    • It’s positive that they are talking to our community and we will need to wait and see what the cars look like. Time will tell and at least something is happening. We know that they won’t be Saabs but if they have Saab DNA then that still interests me. I don’t blame them for focusing on China, if that’s what it takes to build a successful company that can then hopefully develop into other markets.

      • Time won’t tell if we’re dead by the time it tells. NEVS is moving slower than snails pace and by the time Europe gets anything, people will have moved on permanently and by the time North America gets anything, we’ll be pushing up daisies. And the fact of the matter is that North America might never get a NEVS and Sweden might only get token NEVS while they ”focus” on China. And China might not get much of anything either.

        • Why would they care about low margin sales to North America when they may be able to sell in higher volumes than ever before to China. They may well have a successful business without being global. Remember we are not talking about Saab now.

          • Exactly! They already have the car buyers in China. Let NEVS build a strong business and foundation before extending into other markets.

            • We had heard and read that they had car buyers in China back in 2012, too. We heard about orders, fleet vehicles for the government, etc. The first stab at it ended up whiffing. I’ll believe in these ”buyers” when we get photographs of Nevsmobiles riding around China by the thousands.

    • What a BS.
      Pohoenix ready in 2020? So when can we expect those 4 new models base on Phoenix platform? 2021? 22? On a platform designed in 2008? Is that for real?
      Nevs killed Saab and they should burn in hell for that.

    • Jonathan: I hope that NEVS will employ a lot of people in THN – but I am afraid it won’t.

      The SAAB Spirit was developed by , management, secretaries, engineers, mechanics and production engineering – all striving for the same goal:The Best Car.

      NEVS is managed by a Chinese: Kai Johan and a Swedish CEO none who know nothing about cars. Even if there are some former SAAB engineers, they can’t develop a SAAB Spirit on their own, and yet NEVS claim they have. Saab AB has made it very clear, that they have not negotiated with NEVS after bankruptcy.

      Just to say that in the future there will not be cars but services! Bull.

      • Yeah, well, some people thought the Ford V4 engine was blasphemy once also. 😉

        Besides the ”Saab feeling” of the cars, the employment of people in Trollhättan is the single most important thing here. If NEVS can become a stable and appreciated company, the bright minds of former Saab (that have left for other companies) may come back. But that won’t happen over a night.

        We actually should ask Saab AB about the negotiations with NEVS. I wouldn’t bet my money on the claims (in media) that there haven’t been any negotiations.

    • Just can’t believe what I just read. They have Phoenix since 2012 and they need 8 years to addjust hybrid platform to EV? Wtf? It took Tesla 5 years to build a new company from scratch and start production. Unbelievable.

      • They’re being slow and careful, Jacko. They want everything to be just perfect.

    • Jacko: an architecture is developed with first vehicle, so first vehicle, probably, 2020.

      As I said before: Phoenix is dead, but thinking from P could be carried over into P2.

    • On the contrary, there’s a large interest in NEVS. No other posts receive as many comments and start such interesting discussions as the ones about NEVS here at SaabsUnited. So don’t worry, we’ll be sure to continues reporting about NEVS here. 🙂

      • Oh, absolutely, NEVS news gets more play than talking about old cars that are no longer being made, with dwindling parts and service.

    • Jonathan: Rolf Mellde and some engineers/ mechanics saved SAAB, by installing 300 Ford V-4 engines during vacation – that is SAAB Spirit.

      Saab AB has officially said, that there are no ongoing negotiations – I tend to belive them, especially since the Wallenberg Group is using the SAAB brand in their silohuoette racing cars.

      I don’t have a problem with NEVS being located in former SAAB premises – but I do have a problem with NEVS trying to be ”SAAB successor” inheriting the SAAB Spirit – which they obviously are not.

      Again: we both hope for NEVS to be successful in order to employ a lot of people in THN – you belive they will – I do not.

      • That’s if you believe NEVS has long term intentions on THN. My personal belief is that they are talking the talk while it serves them, but in the future, will pull up stakes and walk the walk to China. They will extract what they need, while they need it, then leave an empty facility.

        • Of course NEVS (Notoriously Elusive Vaporware Syndicate) will walk away from THN when it’s expedient for them.

          • The question Mick, becomes ”When will that be?” I think it might be a lot sooner than some of the fans realize. NEVS might keep a presence there to check of a box of some sort—-to be able to claim Swedish technology/cooperation in developing their vehicles. Needless to say, I think they are going to get out of there as fast as they possibly could, depending on what their goals really are. If this is a game of finding money and paying salaries while cars are developed that will never be produced, they will be in Sweden as long as possible, until people finally figure out they are a scam. But if they are seriously trying to mass produce cars to primarily sell in China, they want to build the Chinese factory pronto and pull up stakes in Sweden. Let’s face it: Chinese government owning Chinese car company, intention of selling Chinese cars in China—-and they are going to build them in Sweden and export them back to China? LOL. ROTHFLMAO. If they actually ever mass produce anything to sell in China, it’s going to be done in China as fast as possible. Is this really that difficult to grasp?

    • Monique, no it doesn’t. Otherwise you wouldn’t comment on that.

    • As any other BEV the 9-3 will have no gearbox, and the suspension should be very much the same of the last 9-3.

    • To be honest, I’ve never seen Belgium as a car producing country. There are many reasons why companies close a company in a country, but what I don’t understand is what has this to do with NEVS or SAAB?

    • Monique, please use the ”Reply” link below the comment that you wish to reply to. Your comment about the Belgium car industry is not relevant to this post and, to be honest, there’s no need to ask if someone has Alzheimers here. Stay on topic and keep a better tone now, please.

    • Critical comments, as long as they’re reasonable and on topic, are welcomed here. We have not moderated any comments to this post.

    • My words did not try to insult you or your country, sorry if you felt like that.
      But next time try to find something about the people you want to tell things.

    • I guess the situation is better now compared to the last couple of years, since information about NEVS is less scarce. And I’m quite glad that they are at least saying in public and in official manner (ex. homepage) that they will carry on the SAAB heritage. Will they really keep their words and stay in Trollhättan and stick to SAAB heritage. Whether or not if they would keep their promise isn’t hundred percent certain, and only time would tell.
      My question is how far do they assume (calculate) that their behind other car/ev manufacturers like tesla or nissan. And will they return to other Asian markets where SAABs were sold previously like Korea?, as I’ve only seen them talk about only European, American, Chinese markets. And if they do return, will they sell cars from Trollhättan or Tianjin? (Hopefully the former, as I believe the latter would lead to poor sales)

      • Those are some really good questions, Han. I’ll make sure to include them if we can do another Q&A with NEVS. Thanks!

      • Hi!
        I think it is too early to talk about their global strategy. So besides the EU, which is a home market for them, and the US, which too big to ignore, I don’t think we will see them talking about other markets before the 2nd gen cars hit the roads. And besides that the Korean is not the easiest market for a foreign brand, as it has a strong local car industry.
        But this is only my point of view!!

        • Strong local industries aside, Saab still managed to sell cars and volvo is growing its market share. Not to mention that the Gov. seems to be interested in getting people to buy EVs. May be I’m too optimistic, but it’s just that I hope to see Trollhättan cars again here

          • I think if they see a possibility to sell cars in Korea with a win they will enter the market.
            But it may make send to deliver the Korean market from China, because of the distance, but I don’t know if the Korean customers would be happy with that.

            • Not really.. Volvo had to explain that their cars came from Sweden and Belgium, not the Geely factory at China.. But if NEVS do explain that the main structure is made in Sweden and then shipped to China, the reaction might be favorable

    • I’m quite sure that on SU you can find articles on Saabsunited from Valmet in Uusikaupunki, but I don’t want to search them for you. And regarding that V8, afaik they put two Saab engine-blocks together and it must have been an interesting project, but a V8 in a SAAB, are you serious?

    • As always, I hope that the good folks in Trollhattan stay employed by NEVS. I totally support that, if it can happen. I just do not think that NEVS has the traction to really keep the Saab light burning. Their responses seem clear that they are taking the Google-car approach to transportation where it is just an appliance of sorts and not tied to driving enthusiasm. Saab was the antithesis of a transportation appliance pod, so those statements above sort of seal the Saab fate as far as I can tell. Yes, I hope that NEVS keeps our friends in Trollhattan employed, but I don’t think that what will be produced will in any way really be a Saab. Frankly, the existing 9-3 architecture is very long in the tooth (a good car, but way behind the curve now) and old 9-3s as electric cars seem irrelevant.

      For those of us in North America, it seems completely hopeless. This is an incredibly cut-throat market where either you come to play or you fail miserably. Lots of European brands with offerings for the masses came here and died an ignoble death-Peugeot, Lancia, Alfa, Fiat, Rover, MG, etc. I know the Mini is back but it is a BMW, and the Fiat 500 is just a fun trinket. Alfa is trying to make a comeback yet again, but it is a very hard row to hoe, and they failed back in the 90s badly). Other makes would have been laughed out of the market had they tried (Skoda). Nowhere is the competition more fearsome than in the entry-level luxury segment. You had better have class-leading capabilities, and be very mechanically reliable, or you are toast.

      So, against that backdrop, and considering the comments made by NEVS, I just don’t see new Saabs in our future. Sadly.

      • Paul: I understand Peugeot/Citroen is looking at coming back to the U.S. and possibly Canada. It will take a few years—-might happen by 2020 or 2021 according to what I read. But they are a large company, actually making cars and trucks. That’s a far cry from NEVS, making nothing. NEVS is no longer Saab, we know that. NEVS will not make cars with ”The Saab Spirit” because their plan ignores the Saab spirit. They wouldn’t even be able to define such a thing. I too hope that the fine people of Trollhattan find employment with NEVS and ride it out as long as possible. I do think it will be short lived. This company has all the makings of a sinker. We’ll see.

    • Paul, Angelo: I fully agree. I can also add: since NEVS is owned to 52% by State of China, first three years of production of Gen.1 cars (150.000) are sold to state owned companies, probably for use by state employees, which of course means that performance is secondary, but also that Brand goes down the tube. Which in turn means that even if 2.d generation is good – there will be no customers – outside state employees in China.

      Automotive News China this week had an article about battery plants – they are allowed to produce batteries as solely foreign owned – not the standard joint venture. This opens up for fierce competition for Electric Vehicles – in China and elsewhere.

    • I actually prefer the BAIC older generation Saabs over the 9-3. Heck, if we’re going to consider NEVS as Saab renamed, why not BAIC? Those were better Saabs to begin with and BAIC actually manufactures cars—-they don’t just talk about it for five years, they actually do it.

    • Monique, there is no planned start up of the complete THN plant – only press/bodyshop and paintshop. Since there is – yet – no paintshop in China, all bodies will be fully painted.

      Since there will be no final assembly, there will be no girls with forklifts. 😮

    • For Christ’s sake – can you please stop typing five posts in a row? This is hell annoying especially that you’ve got nothing interesting to say.
      Could one of mods sort her out? Please…

      • 3cyl svarade 3 år sedan

        Jacko, I read all the comments in this thread up to this point and it appears that you are the only one to have typed ”five posts in row”.

    • Well the X6 as a first in its class has been among us for years, now you also have a X4, with the size of an Evoque and the corresponding counterparts from Mercedes, so no news here.
      BTW, that car clas is the most ugly and idiotic car type I’ve ever seen.

      • 3cyl svarade 3 år sedan

        That’s what non-SAAB people said about the original 900 – especially the four door hatchback version.

    • Never said that!

    • Are you talking about the 80’s?
      Or what are you talking about?

    • Well, sorry I’m late to the party, but did the man say, production for the Trollhattan plant would be for Europe and America? Here in Arizona I’m keeping my rag tag fleet of Saabs going waiting for that day.

      Does this make any sense? Well, if you buy the new China plant can supply China’s needs and that NEVS wants to establish an independent mark for that market from the Trollhattan plant. A premium brand you would think, it does make sense. It never made any sense to believe there would be mass production of NEVS bodies shipped to China in the first place. So why keep Trollhattan open? Perhaps the man is telling us the truth.
      I recently had the temptation of buying a 2003 BMW 232I here in the states as a possible replacement for one of my older Saabs. I passed, partially because it was a cut up mod kids car ( as a lot of them are), and partly because the old 9-5 was much better equipped than the 323I. Conclusion, Saab could and did complete , in the high end market before the fall. Maybe NEVS can do it again. Maybe that is what NEVS is thinking, they might be right. Stay positive, if you can.

      • Saab products might have been competitive and maybe that’s what you’re saying but Saab was NOT competitive as far as selling cars and making profits. And NEVS is not Saab—-NEVS doesn’t have the brand. They’re now backpeddling and saying they didn’t want the brand and we all know that’s hogwash. Bottom line: No new Saabs will come from NEVS, ever.

        • Angelo your right not only that Nevs won’t even get to first base with any cars ,,, I truly believe the company will be gone before it happens,,, My suspicion is all smoke screen and mirrors for original investors to get back losses. Nevs, come on who are they really in the car world?? Nobody… This in the end is a money grab,, a shell a fraud.

          • I think you’re right about the goal being KJJ and others to make a few bucks for their trouble, cash out and move on to the next scam. They have been around over 4 years now and haven’t done squat. They haven’t even had a consistent vision to share with the automotive world—-they’re all over the place and talking nonsense, using buzz word phrases to describe themselves that are now bordering on some model where people don’t even own cars. They’re a disgrace in my opinion, a really, really sad way for Saab to finally end. I would have much preferred the final memories of Saab to be Muller struggling to stay afloat and finally sinking, at least producing beautiful cars as a last gasp. Or even the GM bankruptcy, if they would have gone out with Pontiac, Saturn, Hummer…but for Saab to die this way, in the hands of this umm….”group” is just beyond sad. It’s sickening.

            • Angelo, Kai Johan has sold – 52% – to China – he is in the dry.

              NEVS will not sink SAAB – that was done by GM and Muller. NEVS has nothing, whatsoever, to do with SAAB.

              Muller was not capable of designing beautiful cars – nor SAAB:s. He is -being nice – a no-good horsetrader.

              • Exactly—-KJJ ”getting whole again” was/is the point of everything NEVS has done the last couple years.

                Muller—-I said he ”produced” beautiful cars (penned by GM). I didn’t say he designed them.

                ”Saab” cars died in the hands of NEVS. They got the rights to the name, they got the factory, they apparently hired engineers—-and now there is no more ”Saab” cars. Thus, NEVS was the last party to sell Saabs (granted, a couple hundred 9-3s, a complete joke). Saab died with NEVS. NOW, NEVS has nothing whatsoever to do with Saab. They ghouls want us to believe they never wanted the name. Yeah, right.

        • The sad truth is that Saab hardly ever made money, independent or as part of GM. It had interesting products (I have had 12 Saabs over the years) that connected with a lot of folks like us, and that was great, but in the end you have to make money. Operating a small company on a shoestring budget and by seat-of-the-pants, do-or-die gumption is quaint and a good story, but in the current global reality, just can’t survive for anyone selling cars that the average person can afford and that are reliable. Emphasis on reliable.

          I have an old 900 turbo convertible with 340,000 miles. The ignition switch failed recently because of a common problem with the teeth/gears in the mechanism under ignition cylinder, and the parts to repair it were not available even from the former Saab dealer in town for a month. I had a push-button start installed to get me back on the road, and I still have several things that need attention. That is where we are at with old Saabs and the newer ones are getting to the point soon as well. The universe of people who will put up with the nuisance of an old, weird car that constantly needs something is pretty damn tiny.

          The odds that NEVS will revive the ”Saab” spirit are about as good as me making out with Lily James (damn my fate!). The odds that some other maker will acquire the Saab brand rights and make a real Saab are equally as slight or nonexistent. I fear the party is over. If I do get to make out with Ms. James, I will certainly let this group know so they can look forward to new ”Saabs”. And it will be a lot of fun to drive our new ”Saabs” in ice races since Hell will have frozen over, making that our new sporting pastime.

          • Well, I would have been quite happy ”making out” with Rachel Pang of Youngman. NEVS destroyed that little fantasy of mine, too.

    • Actually, I’d love to know about Monique’s background. Her comments, while sometimes pointed, are always interesting and indicate a broad knowledge of the automotive industry and Saab in particular. So Monique, who are you?

    • Chris, yes I believe he said – but that means – to my mind – little.
      Obvioulsly there will be three years of gen.1 -rebuilt 9-3- which obviously will not be competitive. No sweat – NEVS is owned by China – all cars are sold ”internally”

      Complete factory – and engineering center- ready in China in three years. New vehicle also ready – will be produced in China. If – and only if – there is high demand on that vehicle outside China, will NEVS’ ”real” owner (China) consider investments in second tooling and upgrade of THN factory.

      There is a fierce competition of EV:s building in China: AUDI, VW, MB, BMW and others are investing billions of dollars in, development and manufacturing – incl. production of batteries.

      There is little hope that NEVS will succeed outside China, but even so they have declared being in the business of transportation solutions – not necessarily physical cars. There is no trace of a SAAB Spirit in NEVS announcements- contrary to what they claim.

    • Monique, Muller bought SAAB from GM – with practically no up-front money – because that was the easy way out for GM. When M had to pay up, he did the famous ”Ukraine scam”, which got JÅJ to resign.

      The Gen-2 9-5 was designed by Opel/SAAB in Ruesselsheim, where it was supposed to be built. The Phoenix show car was designed by Castriota.

      • I forgot: the money in the Ukraine scam is supposed by Swedish authorities to have come from Antonov, who was persona non grata by: CIA,FBI, EU, GM and Swedish authorities.

        The sad thing is that Antonov was – contrary to Muller – a SAAB-fan – he had owned a MY -98 SAAB 9000 AERO.

    • Make up your mind and put it all together in 1 post instead of another 5 in a row.

    • Jacko is right here, Monique. You need to collect your comments in fewer posts. As it is right now, you’re basically spamming. The comments are hard to read/follow due to all your posts. And again, you’re going off topic with many of your comments. Please respect this or we will have to start cleaning up here.

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